tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-39135812011-12-14T18:57:34.811-08:00[emergent evolution] evolution that according to some theories involves the appearance of new characters and qualities at complex levels of organization (as the cell or organism) which cannot be predicted solely from the study of less complex levels (as the atom or molecule)john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.comBlogger2001100tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-28115074034107402052010-05-15T09:29:00.000-07:002010-05-15T09:29:06.634-07:00

[emergent evolution]: New Bill Bean Blog

Mr. Billhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08485462647930366721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-63633752533171451062010-05-15T09:24:00.000-07:002010-05-15T09:28:05.504-07:00

Recently discovered this old site. Bill Bean's blog is now at www.whatbillthinks.com.Bill Bean on Twitter and for those in the Hoosier State, check out Bill Bean on Smaller Indiana.

Mr. Billhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08485462647930366721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-68890368071035113282007-01-11T20:15:00.000-08:002007-01-11T20:18:31.574-08:00

i will be at the "faith forward forum" in cali at the end of jan - spencer burke and i will be hosting the faith cafe and offering some very cool ops for some very open and expressive dialog - i hope to see some old friends and make some new ones :)

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1140025821600455022006-02-15T09:50:00.000-08:002006-02-15T09:50:21.610-08:00

ginworld.net and songevolution.com have joined forces [as powerless as that is :) ] to form a new "wiki" based project called "ginktionary" [untill a better name is selected - and all ideas are welcome] - here is how it works, or is supose to work:ginktionary is an open dictionary of emerging terms - we are looking for people to write definations to terms that are meaningful to the emerging

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1136584180748800062006-01-06T13:49:00.000-08:002006-01-06T13:49:40.760-08:00

here is a video look at what we are doing at 247connection. i like the way they put it together, but i think the sound could be better and the pictures make me look fat :) but other than that, i love this slice - it's from the charlotte observer, and they will be putting out a paper story this sunday in the "catawba county section" - very cool stuffhere is the link

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1136260007573170922006-01-02T19:46:00.000-08:002006-01-02T19:46:47.586-08:00

Here is the problem I have with the idea of a "fallen world” [a “fallen humanity”]; it does not express the reality God, it can't. It can only express evil. In that, the reality of evil, because it is evil, can not express the reality of God. If the world is fallen, then the 15yr old I saw give her food to a homeless man did it for some other reason than to share her food with someone in need.

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com13tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1135490524045299622005-12-24T22:01:00.000-08:002005-12-24T22:02:04.056-08:00

marry christmas[at least in my time zone]

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1135014020420429102005-12-19T09:40:00.000-08:002005-12-19T09:40:20.433-08:00

over at our ginkworld blog i answer a question given to me by a friend on the postmodern theology egroup - but this has lead me to sme other questions i think i will ask over at the ginkworld message board. and it seems, some tentions we need to work out in the emerging.are we called to do anything as a follower of christ? let that one run your processor for a while as you read some of the

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1132691171964705002005-11-22T12:26:00.000-08:002005-11-22T12:26:11.976-08:00

over the past, from when i wrote that "iam no longer a christian, but i am a follower of christ," people seem to be a little "off" on that. while ihave not recieved death emails, or people sending me chicken parts in the mail, there have been some interesting emails.one person said, that i said, "christ is great, but christians suck." well, that was not what i said, but i think it is a very

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1130248999522285882005-10-25T07:02:00.000-07:002005-10-25T07:03:19.523-07:00

My blog is worth $14,113.50. how much is your blog worth?

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1129433776638697712005-10-15T20:36:00.000-07:002005-10-15T20:36:16.646-07:00

we are in the planning stages at 247connection about hosting a day long learning event [called "a conversation"] for emerging planters, partners and others interested in getting involved in the emerging church. we are praying over the direction and focus of this event. we are planning on a one day event, with labs and breakout sessions dealing with worship, structure [or lack there of], design,

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1129170441302868732005-10-12T19:26:00.000-07:002005-10-12T19:27:21.306-07:00

it has been a long standing "idea" [not into policies] of mine not to write comments on books - i tried to do it on ginkworld, but that fell apart quick - because we kept thinking we were "judging" others, so that is not our style. but i have to say, it is books like the one i will share with you that make me break my "long standing idea."kyle lake emailed me a week or so ago and asked if i

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1127790867805261312005-09-26T20:13:00.000-07:002005-09-26T20:14:27.813-07:00

All conversations evolve, that’s a given. I mean, everything evolves so it stands to reason that a conversation should also evolve. But I think the question is, “what do we evolve too?” If we look at the “natural” evolution of the Christian faith do we see a model of what the evolution of a conversation is, or should be? Let me explain how I see it, and then I will go deeper into each area.

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1127437539475106302005-09-22T18:04:00.000-07:002005-09-22T18:05:39.483-07:00

We can't talk about post-modern mission without talking about networks. This is also one of the areas where the church is least prepared. But as Liz Weil opined, "Prepare to feel obsolete. It's the first step to moving ahead."The old church exists in the forms it does because, to some extent at least, those forms made sense in the modern world. In the world that is coming those forms do not make

Len Hjalmarsonnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1125463136305484852005-08-30T21:38:00.000-07:002005-08-30T21:38:56.310-07:00

well, it is not secret that i am the lead pastor at connection church in hickory, nc - and i might add that i love it :) i got a email from a bud, bob hyatt over at evergreen at the other side of the world [in portland] letting me know that "ingrid" was dogging connection church again - because we have a picture of a girl sitting between two guys on the front page - she thinks it has "sexual

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1125423871020351002005-08-30T10:41:00.000-07:002005-08-30T10:44:31.026-07:00

I visited Chapters yesterday because I wanted to look at three books: Chaos (Gleick), The Hidden Connections (Capra) and The World is Flat (Friedmann). Of these the first two got my attention as I paged through.Capra, it turns out, is Fritjof Capra of the astonishing work of some years ago titled "The Turning Point." A physicist by trade, but now also into biology and organizational science, his

Len Hjalmarsonnoreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1124251903102211362005-08-16T21:11:00.000-07:002005-08-16T21:11:43.106-07:00

it seems the best way to get a new look at life is to move cross country. now, i am not sure if it because i spent the better part of the day team driving with my wife; or that we had to deal with three kids and a dog; or if it was the fact that we were not connected for over a month - we did not have lap tops at the time of the move; or if it was just that i got to see some amazing things on

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1122726139921610962005-07-30T05:20:00.000-07:002005-07-30T05:22:19.926-07:00

John, Welcome to the East Coast my friend. It has been ages since I posted here. Hopefully that will be a trend I can change in the weeks to come. It would be exciting to get something going in the SouthEast.Looking forward to stirring things up a bit.Chris

Chris Alfordnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1121280765399178312005-07-13T11:52:00.000-07:002005-07-13T11:52:45.406-07:00

today is the day we pack the truck and send it on it's way. we will be leaving behind this chapter of our lives and moving to a new chapter. as we close out the california chapter and open the north carolina chapter i have a great many things to be in praise over, God has blessed me in many ways - my family; my wife tina, a great and supportive lady whom i love dearly. she supports me, reads

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1120887954737886782005-07-08T22:44:00.000-07:002005-07-08T22:45:54.743-07:00

the idea of a " movement" disturbs me, not that i am 100% against it, but i would be less than honest if i did not say it disturbs me. now, before i go on let me say this is not a rant against "E"mergent of tony and what he is being called to do. tony has asked that we "take a break" for a while and see where things rest in a few years. i admire tony enough to honor that request. after all,

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1120690924947667792005-07-06T16:00:00.000-07:002005-07-06T16:02:04.953-07:00

i am in the process of moving to north carolina. in that move, i would love to get this blog rolling and focus on issues that are facing us in the southeast. if you are connected to an emerging ministry in the southeast, i would love if you added your voice to this new collaborative blog.the idea is to be a place where people can find out what is happening in our area. conferences, gatherings,

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1120677990441905132005-07-06T12:26:00.000-07:002005-07-06T12:26:30.446-07:00

i just could not resist. it's in my blood. but, it would be a cool book. what do you think? :)

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1120517341201613762005-07-04T15:47:00.000-07:002005-07-04T15:49:01.203-07:00

Review of D.A. Carson's Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church:At the end of D.A. Carson's Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church, Carson leaves us with the words, "Damn all false antitheses to Hell". There is wisdom in this call, perhaps more than even Carson knows. For the struggle to achieve a new synthesis beyond the thesis of modern absolutism and the antithesis of postmodern

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1120517180391406172005-07-04T15:44:00.000-07:002005-07-04T15:46:20.396-07:00

12 Tension Points in the Emerging Church - andrew jones puts out a very cool list of the tensions that are real between us and the "traditional" church link

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1120157131878200532005-06-30T11:45:00.000-07:002005-06-30T13:49:06.640-07:00

it is harder to live in grace, than it is to live in lawit is harder to forgive, than it is to judgeit is harder to love, than it is to hateit is harder to include, than it is to excludeit is harder to engage, than it is to ignoreit is harder to share, than it is to holdit is harder to accept, than it is to rejectit is harder to welcome, than it is to walk awayit is harder to live in grace, than

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1120111298731374332005-06-29T22:25:00.000-07:002005-06-29T23:07:28.116-07:00

Hello all,My name is Stephen Miracle and this is my first post to the blog. I was invited into the mix out of Ginkworld's forum. It is in sincere hope, that I might be able to contribute as I at the same time absorb the conversation brewing in here...For my first entry I want to rant about my personal entrance into emergent and a view about it now. About a year ago, I had read a ChristianityToday

Miraclenoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1119640089709216212005-06-24T12:07:00.000-07:002005-06-24T12:08:09.716-07:00

as a follower of jesus i seek to walk... in love; where the power of love changes my heart and the hearts of everyone i touch. in the power of love as to place my life below the lives of others, and be willing to give my life for the life of another.in forgiveness; in the knowledge that if i do not forgive, i will not be forgiven. in the joy, peace, freedom and blessings of forgiving those who

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1119597308958994582005-06-24T00:14:00.000-07:002005-06-24T00:15:08.963-07:00

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1119428114392738172005-06-22T01:14:00.000-07:002005-06-22T20:29:28.826-07:00

emergent evolution: noun: evolution that according to some theories involves the appearance of new characters and qualities at complex levels of organization (as the cell or organism) which cannot be predicted solely from the study of less complex levels (as the atom or molecule) -- [the blog]we have changed the name of the "postmodern theology" blog to "emergent evolution" to fit more with what

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1119227471570108102005-06-19T17:29:00.000-07:002005-06-19T17:31:11.576-07:00

jordon cooper posted this over at the ooze, and i love it - i think he hit it on the head:Turn off your TV Know your neighbors Look up when you are walking Greet people Sit on your stoop Plant flowers Use your library Play together Buy from local merchants Share what you have Help a lost dog Take children to the park Garden together Support neighborhood schools Fix it even if you didn't break it

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1118777112940687752005-06-14T12:21:00.000-07:002005-06-14T12:33:54.580-07:00

a bud of mine from the postmodern theology egroup posted this, and i just felt the desire to post it here:Dear Global friends,In short: UK Scripture union Holt summer mission desperately seeks 4 (or more) leaders to fulfil it's quota to go ahead this summer, do you like working with children and can you spare a week in August?The Holt Holiday mission has ran for over 8 years now every summer in

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1118695114632577832005-06-13T13:37:00.000-07:002005-06-13T13:38:34.636-07:00

i know, i am not big on surveys - but i thought this one was worth taking - and it is very short, very short.a friend of mine at "forministry.com" is considering starting a new blog exclusively devoted to scripture engagement in a emerging/postmodern context. what i love most about this idea is that they are not saying "this is what we are going to be." here is what my friend tells me about the

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1106446684328612092005-01-22T18:16:00.000-08:002005-04-20T10:35:48.206-07:00

In response to Tim Stafford, senior writer for Christianity Today's article "The Church—Why Bother?}I have to admit, this is somewhat new for me; not the disagreeing part, but the part where I actually voice the concerns i have about a particular article and author that i disagree with strongly. but I think what Tim Stafford has shared (in his Christian Today article) is so wrong, so misguided,

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1104989920473391042005-01-05T21:37:00.000-08:002005-01-05T21:38:40.473-08:00

i think you will like this link - i like the way lindell said it link pax

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1104176049324035822004-12-27T11:25:00.000-08:002004-12-27T11:34:09.323-08:00

Hey John..Long time no communication..I am sorry that I have not kept in touch. I am on my yearly Christmas vacation, so I took time to read up on all that I have been missing... I like your last post... What do you think about the term "saved"? With that, how do we explain Jesus' statement in John 3:7 "you must be born again"? Or 1Peter 1:23 "For you have been born again..."?... Something to

Chucknoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1103929160050344052004-12-24T14:58:00.000-08:002004-12-24T14:59:20.050-08:00

i hate the term "born again" that is my opinion and it is one i stand with. For me, the term “second life” is far more expressive and meaningful. while i think others have the right to use what ever term they desire i also believe we need to start developing terms, metaphors, theologies and expressions of those in new ways. for me, a “second life” is found in believing in christ, and is not “

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1102553978335633672004-12-08T16:58:00.000-08:002004-12-08T16:59:38.336-08:00

Next-Wave picked up a piece I wrote hoping to forestall some pain in the ec/evangelical church conversation in light of recent and upcoming publications.

Stephenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10238745383108764223noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1098106097381024652004-10-18T06:26:00.000-07:002004-10-18T06:28:17.380-07:00

FutureMargins.com died and birthed a new weblog. For missional resources and thoughts visit the Abductive Columns blog

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1097359157505949922004-10-09T14:58:00.000-07:002004-10-09T14:59:17.506-07:00

the associated press is reporting that jacques derrida has died. he has been one of the primary voices in the postmodern thought space that many emerging church writers - particularly toward the beginning of this conversation - found influential as they thought thru new approaches to Christian theology, praxis and ecclesiology. i've posted some references that may interest those who want to

Stephenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10238745383108764223noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1094513275332612202004-09-06T16:27:00.000-07:002004-09-06T17:05:13.176-07:00

thats a question i have been pondering for awhile and for that matter is christianity in north america racist? it seems every event/gathering i attend is overwhelmingly populated by white males, most affluent. rarely does a women speak in a roll of authority, rarely, no never have i heard a person of color speak, well i did attend a workshop at the 2001 soularize lead by karen ward. anyway why is

Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11033826763695148903noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1088040435088069812004-06-23T18:27:00.000-07:002004-06-23T18:27:15.086-07:00

one day jesus took his disciples up the mountain and gathered them around him. as they gathered he looked at each and everyone of them with a smile on his face. he then turned to them and started to teach them by saying: "blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. blessed are the meek. blessed are those who mourn. blessed are the merciful. blessed are those who thirst

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1087338112688610972004-06-15T15:15:00.000-07:002004-06-15T15:25:58.926-07:00

[ i originally wrote this for my blog, thought it might be of interest to readers here as well. it provides a framework for talking about how it is possible for two differing views of the world to be true at the same time, even if they disagree on some things ] here's a quotation from the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, (also available to read on-line here), referring to the

Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12115424504447094922noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1087252667977190582004-06-14T15:37:00.000-07:002004-06-14T15:37:47.976-07:00

Ever visit a “postmodern/emerging” community of faith and the experience was anything but postmodern? If anything, one could call it a “hyper-evangelical experience” – you know, a standard “saddlecreek” church with louder music and cool haircuts. I have been there, done that and even have the t-shirts. Over time I have received many emails from people who have asked me what I think a “

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1084491765598544252004-05-13T16:40:00.000-07:002004-05-13T17:10:21.530-07:00

it's about 95% finished (what do you think of the "new" logo? - it's actually a rehash of one of out first logos. it has no real "theological" meaning - we just like it ) - but ginkworld.net has a new look, and will soon be having new sections - more music, more books, more tribal stuff, and more of everything. we are excited about the future and all God has brought our way - we hope you like

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1084470084273972192004-05-13T10:38:00.000-07:002004-05-13T10:41:24.273-07:00

well, it has been a while between posts - 1/26/2004, that's almost 4 months - and i have to admit that a great deal of that has fallen because of me :) - ok, i take the heat and now we rekick - new look, new directions and best of all - still seeking christ in our lives :) let the debates begin :) pax

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1075159246825472962004-01-26T15:20:00.000-08:002004-01-26T15:22:53.310-08:00

Modern American Christianity is a diverse multiplex of trends. No longer do the labels “Catholic” or “Protestant” neatly categorize the trajectories of the post-Reformation era we live in. Protestantism is so hopelessly fragmented that entirely different words are needed to describe the variety of movements and trends within. Liberals take on a theology of social activism, while the Reformed hold

Adam Omelianchuknoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1073249763188509082004-01-04T12:56:00.000-08:002004-01-04T12:57:40.746-08:00

hey john et al, I've been absent from this blog for a long time.. but I'm hoping to stop by a bit more often. blessings to all in the new year! Here's a provocative thought from Bonhoeffer.. "During these years the Church has fought for self-preservation as though it were an end in itself, and has thereby lost its chance to speak a word of reconciliation to humanity and to the world at large.

Len Hjalmarsonnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1073154439491112272004-01-03T10:27:00.000-08:002004-01-03T10:28:55.170-08:00

i just added some new people to the posting - sorry it took so long :) i pray all have had a great holiday season :) be in peace

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1071984575337109662003-12-20T21:29:00.000-08:002003-12-20T21:30:53.186-08:00

"Since the revelation given in the Scriptures embraces a complete system of truth, every single department must sustain many obvious relations, logical and otherwise, to every other as the several parts of one whole. The imperfect development, and the defective or exaggerated conception of any one doctrine, must inevitably lead to confusion and error throughout the entire system." A.A. Hodge

Aaron Shafovaloffnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1071042721926495042003-12-09T23:52:00.000-08:002003-12-09T23:53:05.090-08:00

what does it mean to be married? do you "need" the paper? does the state decide? what does it mean?

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1063993433552218312003-09-19T10:43:00.000-07:002003-09-19T10:43:53.073-07:00

When the Okanagan Mountain Park fires were first raging near Kelowna, one of the earliest impressions I had was of the natural cycle of regeneration. I remembered a special I had seen on the American National Parks system in 1989 where the ecologists and forestry specialists recalled that before the days of managed forests, fires were part of a natural cycle. When European settlers arrived, our

Len Hjalmarsonnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1063752052594101612003-09-16T15:40:00.000-07:002003-09-16T15:44:11.030-07:00

The following is a research paper I wrote for my pastor on postmodernism. It's long, poorly written, and I don't expect you to finish it. But maybe you can help me if I misrepresented aonyone's views. Introduction When being asked to define postmodernism, I just sort of blink with apprehension, because it’s like being asked what color is a rainbow? Many people don’t realize that the way people

Adam Omelianchuknoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1063380267507364412003-09-12T08:24:00.000-07:002003-09-12T08:30:23.610-07:00

Wineskin(s)Darryl Dash facilitates a collaborative blog called Leading Dying Churches. A fantastic group of thinkers(not unlike this group) contribute to meaningful and regular discussion there. Today I ran into a post which I found to be particularly interesting. The question posed here by Sandy is one that I hear frequently, and one that I believe may implicate some very drastic results for

jarednoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1060293558145160212003-08-07T14:59:00.000-07:002003-08-07T14:59:18.096-07:00

One of my big problems with all the talk about POMO is a lack of definition to what it really is. I want the best representation of Postmodernism put forward. Modern Reformation did an interview with Richard Rorty, a postmodern philosopher, about his views. Here are a couple quotes: MR: How would you define truth in contrast to the ways we have usually thought about it? RR: I think that it is a

Adam Omelianchuknoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-1058554893576444812003-07-18T12:01:00.000-07:002003-07-18T12:14:13.300-07:00

Tuesday night I had the opportunity to connect with a friend and mentor about an upcoming opportunity he has been offered. He has been asked if he would be willing to be interviewed, along with a couple others, for a large christian organization's study on church planting. What question will the interview attempt to tackle? "What is a successful church plant?" When he told me, we shared a

jarednoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-955288402003-06-10T17:55:00.000-07:002003-06-10T17:55:29.250-07:00

For most of my life I've thought of myself as a radical. With my discovery that postmodernity and premodernity fit my perspective more than modernity, and judging by the reaction of some local friends to this part of my journey, I still fit the category. Then again.. I am hopeful that more will join me. The root of radical is radix, meaning root.. and getting to the root of meaning, the root of

Len Hjalmarsonnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-954158772003-06-07T15:01:00.000-07:002003-06-07T15:01:56.070-07:00

Postmodernism is dead? Really? I know that in the aesthetics world, postmodern art belongs in the 1980's. Fair enough. We moved from shading and darkness and smudgies (postmodern) to continuity, crisp distinctions and compositions. Very well. But what about church? I am guessing that most of the people writing these blogs attend or lead churches that are structured with a high modern style,

Andrew Jonesnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-953315842003-06-05T08:55:00.000-07:002003-06-05T09:01:50.000-07:00

Reading deepdirt, when I came to the comment about being perceived as the ghost-in-the-machine. I stopped, something about that catalyzed with the emotions/thoughts which resulted in the rant I posted here. I've been bugged about how hard it can be, to be "emergent" and in relationship with those who don't care at all what Bruggerman or Caputo think. Something about the language of the

Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12115424504447094922noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-949862132003-05-28T05:49:00.000-07:002003-05-28T05:51:44.000-07:00

Something I posted on my blog this morning that I thought this group might find of interest: Postmodernism is dead (Props to YouthSpecialties for the find.) This essay contains much food for thought, but the gist of it is: Postmodernism, then, was about the deconstruction of the dominant institutions of the Modern and the discrediting of the corresponding metanarratives that gave life to a host

Andrewnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-947205632003-05-21T21:16:00.000-07:002003-05-21T21:16:50.380-07:00

my rant. apologies to aaron, but what you posted was a little too familiar, heard it coming out of my mouth not too long ago. i'm sick of being sick. i'm sick of my passion for the kingdom of god expressing itself as judgement and disapproval of others who are just stupid people like me trying to somehow manifest christ to a broken world. i'm sick of being called on it, and having to admit

Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12115424504447094922noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-945166322003-05-17T17:30:00.000-07:002003-05-17T17:30:05.160-07:00

My new blog. Check it out. FutureMargins.com

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-939323822003-05-07T08:40:00.000-07:002003-05-07T08:40:02.620-07:00

rant: i'm sick of other pastors. i love them, don't get me wrong. but, why can they not be true to what God asks them to do, be themselves, and let their church function as God gives them the church (people)? there are 2 things that never fail to happen when i am in a group of "ministers". really, this is no church in particular. really. 1. "they" always try to "use" our people to promote their

aaronnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-939112702003-05-06T22:53:00.000-07:002003-05-06T22:53:41.240-07:00

when we think of community - do we see a people in action, or a people in stagnation? you see, i have been thinking lately (too much time on my hands) that if we actuly got off our "pews" and started to truly do some work in faith we actuly could solve some social problems - we could actually help people get their lives in order - and would that not be cool? instead, we like to talk about it -

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-935010402003-04-29T18:19:00.000-07:002003-05-01T12:09:52.000-07:00

What does true community mean? Does it mean developing the character of Christ in each individual that lives in community? How do we discern true community from community? Hey, I also perfer team leadership, but team leadership (in my thinking) doesn't equal true community. Team leadership can be proactive, reactive, passive, good or bad depending on the character and filters each leader brings

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-934906482003-04-29T14:51:00.000-07:002003-04-29T14:52:35.000-07:00

This is just about relevant to the preceding posts. The Archbishop of Canterbury gave a talk on Benedictine holiness today at Trinity Church on Wall Street entitled 'God's Workshop'. The text is here, but you should also be able to access the webcast from the home page. It's worth reading, partly because Rowan Williams is cleric du jour for a lot of people, but also because there seems to be a

Andrew Perrimannoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-934159322003-04-28T12:19:00.000-07:002003-04-28T12:19:15.876-07:00

Not sure I see a paradox, but I do see the need for a different frame.. so how's this.. Faith communities that don't utilize team leadership aren't really "communities" but corporations, with hierarchical structure. No wonder growth is numerical (crop rotation) rather than by conversion, transformation, and going deeper (organicly.. deeper roots, internal growth). But where there is a team, and

Len Hjalmarsonnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-932115422003-04-24T18:11:00.000-07:002003-04-24T18:12:12.000-07:00

Conflicting Leadership Styles Consider this paradox...Faith communities lead by ministers who are "pastoral types" generally don't grow, but you can't grow unless you care for people. (Crop rotation doesn't count as growth) If a community becomes a spiritual hospital, focused primarily on bandaging wounds--it tends not to develop the muscular faith necessary to engage the postmodern world. I

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-930774182003-04-22T16:47:00.000-07:002003-04-22T16:47:02.166-07:00

back in the loop: well, i have been "out" for a while - healing with my daughter and our friends. one thing that i have come to in all this is that when life bites, sometimes it is best to say nothing. i have found that the ones who have effected me the most are those who have just prayed for us and did not try to "explain" way the pain. but that is central, i believe, to a postmodern

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-924105392003-04-10T22:41:00.000-07:002003-04-10T22:41:21.716-07:00

i am new here, first night, but been thinking a lot about a lot of things....reading "A new kind of Christian" right now, its a good book. Just thought I'd check in and say hi.

Kenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10979640928916188010noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-913169602003-03-24T18:06:00.000-08:002003-03-24T18:06:09.966-08:00

live from baghdad its salam pax get a first account of the war from a guy who lives in baghdad

Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11033826763695148903noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-909494702003-03-18T14:13:00.000-08:002003-03-18T14:13:32.483-08:00

can of worms: officially open. since sexual sin is not new....let's look at one instance of blatant, unrepentant, and even braggadocious sexual sin: 1 cor. 5. Paul calls for the church to not associate with this "believer".....not because he is sinning sexually, but because he is PROUD of it. i think this would apply in many cases. homosexuals welcome. yes. offered the "new bread of purity and

aaronnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-909014342003-03-17T20:23:00.000-08:002003-03-17T20:23:01.296-08:00

the issue: homosexuality i have been wondering how we deal with the issue of homosexuality in a postmodern church. are we "opening and accepting?" or are we "open and transforming?" Even still, if one postmodern/emerging church says it's ok, and another says it's wrong - is that cool? do they allow each other to have the same point of view? if they differ, can they still worship togather,

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-902569792003-03-06T12:30:00.000-08:002003-03-06T12:31:19.000-08:00

Hi everyone, I am new to the post-modern theology blog. I just got an email from O'keef to post and say hello. I am new to bloging, but I got little one up at http://ochuk.gizzar.com/ Thanks, Ochuk

Adam Omelianchuknoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-900375912003-03-02T23:08:00.000-08:002003-03-02T23:08:53.000-08:00

this all makes me wonder, how do we define evil? i had a friend who always said, "i don't know what it is, but i know it when i see it." but that seems just out of place - what is evil, and it it evil if one person does it - and not evil if another person does it? pax john

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-899424102003-02-28T22:04:00.000-08:002003-02-28T22:04:57.310-08:00

John and Andrew, I thank you for your dialog. Several months ago, I was startled by the fervent anti-war stances taken in several of the postmodern web and blog sites, some against the war on a philosophical basis, some against this particular circumstance with Iraq and some pointedly antagonistic of the president. This old American History major (economic/constitutional/diplomatic emphasis)

Jodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10779216290267476565noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-899275122003-02-28T15:28:00.000-08:002003-02-28T15:32:25.000-08:00

John, I know what you mean. I'm inclined to see it simply as a problem of scale - I'm not that sold on the autonomy and inviolability of the nation state. But in the end, isn't it just a question of power? The oppressed are powerless, whether they are children or adults. The West is powerful and is in a position with respect to Iraq to intervene with reasonable prospect of success. Moreover, we

Andrew Perrimannoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-899120102003-02-28T09:52:00.000-08:002003-02-28T09:52:14.700-08:00

andrew - i see what you are saying, but could there be a difference between a neighbour and a country? i would get involved with a neighbour who is abusing they children - but in a country we do not have only chlidren - but adults who can "take control" of the problems themselves. i am not sure we should jump in, when the people - who are mostly adults - are not steping up to the plate

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-899009472003-02-28T06:08:00.000-08:002003-02-28T06:18:18.000-08:00

John, that sounds a bit fatalistic to me. If you knew that your neighbour was severely abusing his wife and kids and storing unusually large quantities of ammonium nitrate in his garden shed, would you simply pray that God would use that family for his purposes? Now maybe you're not perfect either; maybe you row with your wife; maybe you're driving your teenage kids up the wall with your ranting

Andrew Perrimannoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-898886652003-02-27T23:14:00.000-08:002003-02-28T09:49:39.000-08:00

andrew - thanks for the psalms thing - i never knew that. i understand what you are saying about the idea of a "legitimate" government. i agree that all governments have problems, and that is my point - we can not see the govenment of iraq as "wrong" - at best we can see it as "different." we can not judge another, without having that same judgement falling upon us. our goal should be to

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-898492542003-02-27T09:49:00.000-08:002003-02-27T09:49:55.000-08:00

But John, surely there is no ideal legitimate authority - every national government is going to have some skeleton or other in its closet. Paul appears to have regarded Rome as a legitimate authority; but Rome was an idolatrous imperial power, established by force and invasion, which did not hesitate to intervene violently in the internal affairs of subject peoples (including Israel), which came

Andrew Perrimannoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-898238092003-02-26T22:42:00.000-08:002003-02-26T22:42:03.466-08:00

jody - thanks for the post - but i think the author got some things wrong - first their mention of "the us government is a legitimate authority." is it? under the principles set forth by the article the author fergets that a revolution is not a "just war" - so, the "battle for independance" of america was "unjust" making america "non-legit." there is no way around it - the "founding fathers"

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-895547322003-02-22T08:31:00.000-08:002003-02-26T22:31:37.000-08:00

I can't claim authorship or research on this...but wanted another perspective. Jody Sneed We all know how we feel - but this guy took "rules" of a just war provided by Historical Christian writings and did a check list. Interesting - may help answer some questions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Possible war with Iraq - Just or Unjust? How are Christians to view

Jodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10779216290267476565noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-893120182003-02-18T08:07:00.000-08:002003-02-18T08:07:58.866-08:00

i must start this post with the reality that i was unable to hear the radio message on npr - it just did not work - i have heard it said by some that we have become a joke to the world - but many of the people i know who are not followers are very interested in what we have to say, but we are not saying anything. it is not that we need to speak with one voice, we just need to respect the voices

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-890918872003-02-14T06:23:00.000-08:002003-02-14T06:23:08.720-08:00

heard a great story yesterday on morning edition on npr about the church and why no ones listens to its proclamations any more War Debate Highlights Doubts on Influence of Churches As the United States contemplates going to war with Iraq, many church leaders are speaking out against military action. But some who believe war may be necessary say the church's influence over the American

Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11033826763695148903noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-888191062003-02-09T15:45:00.000-08:002003-02-09T15:45:54.853-08:00

we live in world of terror - we need to look back at our lives and see what brought us to this point. what did we do to cause the problem - we need to be honest and realize that we did contribute to the problem. the idea that "we did nothing wrong" is wrong. we are at orange, and just one step from red - pax john

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-885562342003-02-04T15:20:00.000-08:002003-02-04T15:20:20.296-08:00

Martin Roth has written a review of A Mobile Church in E.P.I.C. Times:Moving Across Faith Community Borders." Take a look.

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-885471862003-02-04T12:13:00.000-08:002003-02-04T12:15:56.000-08:00

Like John, I read Kevin Miller's "PPM” (Proponents of postmodern ministry) rant. It’s unfortunate that the most significant thing said was contained in a mere two sentences. Brian McLaren, an author of several books on postmodern ministry, writes in his latest that he has "a desire to move beyond a critique of modern ministry (a hobby that can be dangerously preoccupying)." And he and others are

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-885437502003-02-04T10:56:00.000-08:002003-02-04T10:56:30.460-08:00

talk about not getting it, kevin miller seems to not the poll on his page - as of 2.4.03 the poll had the following: 46% take it seriously - while 3% don't see it in their church - interesting. 24% want us to get past it, while 16% see it as a passing fad - i wonder. could the ones that want us to "get past it" be moderns who are tired of our not wanting to go along with their flow - pax john

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-885091102003-02-03T19:15:00.000-08:002003-02-03T19:33:59.000-08:00

I'm afraid natives are going to have to accept the baton the immigrants pass you; monuments and all. It's unfortunate but it appears that current leadership just doesn't get it; and it doesn't appear that they are willing to consider the future of the next generation of leadership. They're so busy doing ministry indigenous to their time that they are essentially brain dead to your ideas and

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-884578492003-02-02T21:48:00.000-08:002003-02-02T21:48:43.003-08:00

speaking of elders, so i sit down tonight to read some fav sites, and................ my elder in blogging, Jordon, is gone. do i cry, or eagerly await the "next"?

aaronnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-883805742003-02-01T08:24:00.000-08:002003-02-01T08:24:45.526-08:00

Fred you got to be an elder? man, i never made it that far. i usually was the one to run against the incubant deacon/board member. i played along with the ruse as long as i got to play dress up christianity so i would seemingly be accepted by "normal" folk. i was once allowed to be a part(or is that apart) of the pastor search committe. i think i lost ground with my"peers" in this conservitive

Chucknoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-880828762003-01-26T22:10:00.000-08:002003-01-26T22:10:29.043-08:00

fred - very cool on the book publishing. i look forward to the read - let us know when it's out - pax

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-878676782003-01-22T15:48:00.000-08:002003-01-22T16:14:31.000-08:00

I was an elder. No more; I just recently resigned because of the subtle and continual dismissive statements thrown my way by the other elders. My ministry model (POMO) was considered an aberration while there’s was considered the norm (modern). Actually I over stayed my time trying to make things work. On another note I just finished writing a book titled, “A Mobile Church For E.P.I.C. Times:

Fred Peatrosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05694243681641751012noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-878375802003-01-22T04:49:00.000-08:002003-01-22T04:49:47.210-08:00

John, I know how you feel. I'm still looking as well. However, my challenge to us all, is that we prepare ourselves to be "good" elders for the emerging generation behind us. May we, as leaders, not fail the next bunch the way past generations have failed many of us.

Chris Alfordnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-876631902003-01-18T19:19:00.000-08:002003-01-18T19:19:17.696-08:00

i'm not sure if i want an "elder" - in the realm of age - in my life. as of late, all the older people i talk with seem to want to judge me and tell me that what i think and how i feel is wrong. it's hard to listen to "wisdom" when it is designed to condem and control. when i speak with elders, i am told how to act, what to think and when to think it. if i think outside their evagelical

john o'keefehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10028206413718784285noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-876628492003-01-18T19:09:00.000-08:002003-01-18T19:09:47.013-08:00

I'd give about anything for a good elder or two in my life. Recently I've been participating in some meetings with other local ministry types in which I'm typically the youngest one present (35). These experiences combined with where I am in life have made me desperately hungry for something like an elder. There are times when I don't want to talk to anymore peers or young radicals. (frequent

Mr. Billhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08485462647930366721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-875563422003-01-16T14:36:00.000-08:002003-01-16T14:36:50.263-08:00

Elders, John Wayne, Gandalf, Mel Gibson.. a metaphorical tour de force ;) So how we we value what has gone before without setting our own feet in that fine box of concrete? I agree we need elders.. in particular, true elders who have not made the mistake of confusing the vehicle and the journey. Its incredible, but there really are some old dudes (and dudesses) out there who are still alive

Len Hjalmarsonnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-875003252003-01-15T15:03:00.000-08:002003-01-15T17:43:46.000-08:00

re-elders John Wayne is a symbol of Americanism. The independent spirit, the do it my way or be blasted into kingdom come. Because of this pioneer mentality, each generation seems to have the need to seperate itself from previous generations and pioneer a new path instead of improving/extending the old paths. Even our parents generation, paved a new path and rejected the paths of their

Chris Alfordnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-874580712003-01-14T20:44:00.000-08:002003-01-14T20:44:51.026-08:00

So Mel Gibson is taking heat for making his new Passion about the life of Jesus. I like Mel Gibson a lot. And have heard only good things about him. I think this is the case of Hollywood meddling again. To quote him: "This is a movie about love, faith, hope and forgiveness, He died for all mankind. He (Jesus) suffered for all of us. It's time to get back to that basic message. The world has

Iggiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15345253645774585907noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3913581.post-874099372003-01-14T01:44:00.000-08:002003-01-14T01:44:48.790-08:00

Re: Elders My parents certainly aren't perfect. But, they aren't pure evil, either. They are of a modern mindset. And yet, there is much I have learned from them and much I can still learn from them. I understand you have been hurt, John. But, to simply dismiss all that is "modern" as evil and wrong is to miss out on much that is good and worthwhile. Sorting out what is worthwhile from what

kevin hnoreply@blogger.com0